Only a few years prior to this Christological change, two of my children, who were about ages 6 and 8 at the time, had a brief but profound discussion about the identity of Jesus during our family devotion. I then recorded in my family memoirs. My son announced, “Jesus and God are the same.” His sister pondered that for a moment while sucking her thumb, pulled out her thumb and retorted, “No, God is a part of Jesus.” Years later I thought, “From the mouth of babes comes wisdom,” because that’s exactly what I later decided.

Jesus was not God, but God was uniquely in him. There is quite a difference, and many Christians are confused about this. Jesus never claimed to be God, but he constantly taught that God, whom he regularly called “the/my Father,” was with and in him, giving him his mighty deeds to do and his words of wisdom to speak. Jesus once prayed to the Father, calling him “the only true God” (John 17.3). And sometimes he called the Father “my God” (Matt. 27.46/Mark 15.34; John 20.17; Rev. 3.2, 12). If Jesus had a God, who is the Father and the only God, then Jesus cannot be God.

As for those few biblical texts that many Christians believe indicate that Jesus is God, either they are mistranslated, often because of grammatical difficulties, or misinterpreted. This is in my new book, The Restitution of Jesus Christ, available at servetustheevangelical.com. It may be the most formidable book to ever challenge the church dogma that Jesus is God while affirming all other major church teachings about Jesus.

How’s the life of a seminarian/family man going? I see on presbymergent that you’ve gotten all organized and “structured”. It seems it was just a matter of time wasn’t it?
I’m actually writing on this thread because I caught the conversation and found Mr. Sir’s comments rather interesting. I understand his concern. If you recall our conversation I’d asked you to please take the route of truthfulness when it comes time to take your ordination vows. Because the pomo view of truth doesn’t really match up with most folks understanding, a lot of fudging and rationalizing is going on and so people who affirm one thing in a vow, will then repudiate or cast pointed skepticism on that same belief 5 minutes later once they’re in. If you’re modern you view this as dishonest. If you’re postmodern it’s just part of the journey. I’m afraid it’s an unlivable and untenable situation. So much so that it’s caused me to say that I’m closer to leaving the PC(USA) than I am to staying. If I have to go somewhere else, even if it’s a doctrinally rigid, conservative, dogmatic church, I’m hoping to at least find somewhere where people’s words ARE their word. Where words and sentences still mean things. Where there is some consistency between what they say and how they live. Where they don’t speak out of both sides of their mouth. And when it comes to their confessions, they don’t bait and switch.
I think before people start philosophizing about God and worrying about the evil and injustice that is “out there”, they need to look at the injustice and wrongdoing that is within. I’m finding that a lot of people can rationalize an awful lot of stuff in the name of so-called “progressive” Christianity. The Christians that are supposed to be the good and thoughtful ones. Not the overly simplistic fundies. People are very quick to jump on evangelicals, and possibly with good reason, for what appear to be abuses, but I think that a lot of liberally minded and emergent Christians could be taken to the wood shed as well.

Do I sound disillusioned?

Anyway didn’t mean to go off or appear as though I’m pointing fingers. It’s just a concern to think about.

Some things to think about with regards to the divinity of Christ:

1) The writers of the NT such as Matthew, Luke, John, Peter, and Paul all spoke of Jesus as both God and man. A careful reading will yield this conclusion. I can’t see how you can read the NT and not conclude that this is the best interpretation.

2) With the possible exception of Luke, all the writers above were “eyewitnesses.” So we are dealing with primary sources.

3) Using selective versus like Mark 10 or Acts 2:22-24 to score points against “the divinity of Christ,” does not do justice to the context.

4) The NT writers spoke frequently of Christ’s sinlessness and that his crucifixion allows the believer to receive salvation. I think that C.S. Lewis makes a good case that only God could live a sinless life and be the perfect sacrifice to free humanity from his evil as well as from the Devil’s power.

Disagree with the Christian message, reject the divinity of Christ, and even the reliability of the NT, but the NT leads the broadest reader to infer that Jesus was both God and Man.

So, Mr. Locke, I would suggest that an honest search of the issue and inquiry of God, himself (“ask and you shall receive”), may change your mind yet.

Best Wishes!

If you don’t think that, I’m left to ask why you posted what you did? You’ve made exactly the same arguments that countless others have made before you, and countless others still have poked holes in, both scripturally and logically. If you want me to, I’ll go through each one for you and do the same, but I have to admit I’d really rather not waste the energy unless you’re willing to adopt a more conversational, collegial, or just plain friendly style of dialogue.

One thing, though. You say that “Without the divinity of Christ, there is no hope for salvation of any kind and your faith is in vain.” That’s pretty bold of you to judge my faith as “in vain,” considering you don’t even know me, and pretty bold of you to assume that the only way God could possibly “save” mankind is in the way you (and others) perceive. God can do whatever God wants to do, however God wants to do it. The interpretations you reference are all human in origin.

I would suggest that you should be just a wee bit less certain of your knowledge of God, but I suppose that “certainty” is a core component of your faith, so I’ll leave you to it. Suffice it to say, for me, that all of the disciples chose to follow Christ long before anyone ever said anything about “divinity.” I think they were the better for the journey, so please don’t be so harsh on me for following in that vein. And please, please try to be more understanding of different points of view, even ones you disagree with–especially if you ever expect *anyone* to listen to your witness. Arguments (actually, argument styles) like yours are more likely to work against your intentions, where a little charity and relationship might go a lot farther…

first of all, please read Isaiah 9:6, among His titles are :”the mighty God”, “Everlasting Father”. Then read 1Tim 3:16, “God was manifest in the flesh” and then John 1:1 the Word was God, then John 1:14 “The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us,” also the angel told them that His name would Immanuel, meaning “God with us”.
Ive never had a greek class, but i have studied for a long time. Without the divinity of Christ, there is no hope for salvation of any kind and your faith is in vain. Let me also ask, How did Jesus Christ pay for our sins? He became sin, and suffered the wrath of God for sin on your behalf. in my book, it is like the old saying, what would happen if an unstoppable object struck and immovable object? it did happen, when the Lord Jesus Christ died on the cross and suffered the eternal wrath of God (Isaiah 53). Who but God could withstand the wrath of God? If you assert that Jesus isnt divine, how then was he able to be sinless? What about the miracles he performed? what about all the “types” of the Old Testament that clearly point to Christ?
Jesus also said things like, “I and the Father are one.”, “Before Abraham was, I AM.” “He also said of Jerusalem, “How often i would have gathered you as a hen does her chicks, but you would not” how could he say that if He was not eternal? Isaiah 43:11, Isaiah 45:21, Hosea 13:4, all basically say the same thing, I am the Lord your God, and there is no Saviour beside me., 2Sam 22:3 says that he is the God of my rock, my hightower, my Saviour. Isaiah 43:3 says, “For I AM the Lord thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour:”
I could go on, and on, and on, and finally Jesus said, that “unless you believe that I AM he, ye shall die in your sins”
Please believe that Jesus is in fact the Son of God, 100% God, 100% man.